Barack Obama and The Party That Can’t Lose

October 10, 2008

In the final stages of the presidential election, there is certainly no disputing that the national spotlight has shifted to Barack Obama rather than John McCain, whether rightfully so or not. 

While listening to a Fox Radio broadcast, a republican strategist put out a bold analogy in a similarly bold topic, quoting:

The party that can’t lose [Dem.] has nominated a candidate that can’t win, and the party that can’t win [Rep.] has nominated a candidate that can’t lose.

Although the quote isn’t exactly historically accurate (its very debatable), nor do I necessarily agree with what the man said, he certainly raises a very good point. 

 Although I am a (obviously non-racist) liberal Obama  supporter who frankly doesn’t care about his previous  political involvements, I know for a fact that many other  people don’t share my views — whether they support  Obama or McCain. 

 Several polls have shown that a great number of people are  in fact concerned with Ayers and other people’s involvement  with Obama, mostly the people that the McCain campaign  have hit on in their recent campaigning.

 It is of course also debatable if those campaign tactics have  in fact succeeded (maybe another post), but my main point here is to raise an even more subtle question: “Has Obama’s background and not necessarily clear past kept the political race as close as it is?” 

In my opinion the answer is yes. 

The McCain campaign, in my view, is taking extremely long and (I’ll quote Obama on this) “erratic” bounds as far as attacks, but it has worked to some extent with the general audience. As pointed out in a great post, McCain’s attacks may have not convinced any talking head to intellectual blogger. But I disagree with the post it its claim that they has altogether failed. 

But in the same sense, Obama is still a clear shot away from the White House, and this issue most likely would be far from relevant in that were to happen.

So instead I’ll open up another (certainly way off track) concept to the commenters, which is further prompted by my original question: Has Obama’s background and not necessarily clear past kept the political race as close as it is?

What if a non-scandalous John Edwards were in Obama’s political place at the moment? Would the election be more of a landslide? 

—- In my opinion, this would be completely irrelevant and false, mostly because I support Obama because of his policies rather than his past involvements. —

 

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225 Responses to “Barack Obama and The Party That Can’t Lose”

  1. Kevin Robles Says:

    Hey Pacer,

    First, I hope your being sarcastic when you say the non-scandalous John Edwards. He was caught cheating.

    Second, I think that there is a deception that Sen. Obama’s past or background is not clear. Conrvatives say it isn’t clear, but those are just talkingpoints. Nonetheless, they are effective. So effective that the media has created a mirage of an empty-background Obama. Nonetheless, this deception does make the race closer. Did you see McCain having to defend Obama twice at a rally in Minnesota? I almost felt sorry for Sen. McCain.

  2. pacer521 Says:

    Kevin,

    Funny, I guess I was a bit misleading. I said “a” non-scandalous John Edwards in the context of — lets say that Edwards never cheated (I am not talking ethically here, just strategically) and is now in Obama’s position.

    My point was that what if there was a white man with a clear past running instead of Obama. I don’t like Edwards, and am an Obama supporter all the way, but I raised the question to see if the general public would think differently in that situation.

    I saw that video — McCain really did dig himself into a hole because of those ads, but he really did the right thing in Minnesota. What puzzles me is that someone gave that woman a microphone (the person who called obama an Arab). Not saying I have anything against Arabs…

    thanks for the comment.

  3. Larry Says:

    I respectively disagree with you about Barack Obama’s past. He has shown a clear tendency for several things.

    First, he seems to want to shut up anyone who has the nerve to question him. Instead of just trying to refute their arguments, he starts threatening legal action.

    Second, despite what he says and what he would have us believe, he is very much against 2nd Amendment rights. His voting record is very clear on this.

    Third, he not only believes abortion should be a choice, but he fights any and all efforts to place any kind of a restriction on the practice.

    Fourth, he is of the opinion that the way to help our economy is to tax the living daylights out of the wealthy and use it to redistribute the wealth to those less fortunate. While I could certainly use some of that wealth, that is not the way for me or anyone else to get it.

    Just a few of the reasons I can not support Barack Obama.

  4. Kevin Robles Says:

    Pacer,

    I agree with your point. The reason they gave her the microphone is because it was a town-hall meeting, where people get to ask questions. If you are asking in the, wtf? Why’d they give the mic to a crazy person, well, most of those pople think like she does.

  5. donstuff Says:

    I don’t really know either candidate, but one of my friends used to work with McCain. From what I’ve heard about him, I could never vote for the man. It seems the Republicans are trying hard to throw this election and can’t seem to create separation.

  6. chamay0 Says:

    You know Pacer521 I dig you for being so young but so insightful. You make me, well, damn proud.

    I want you to read my post http://chamay0.wordpress.com/2008/10/11/is-mccains-negative-campgian-working/.

    Yes there are racist out there (unfortunately they have not died off yet), but these economic times is knocking race out of the box of what’s important for the bulk of us. Yes there is the unknown of something happening to refocus people’s attention on McCain in a positive way, but this week that is not happening. This week the only think that McCain has going for him is exciting the right wingnuts into a frenzy to attack Obama in a violent way. This is not a win for McCain. There are way to many younger people that have a low tolerance for race as an issue. But what weaken his stance even more is when he had to admit that Obama was not a Arab and was a decent person.

    McCain is erratic and it is becoming abundantly clear. Where can he turn now? He has pissed off republicans, conservatives, independents, moderates and now with this new stance possibly the right wingnuts. Where is there left to go?

  7. pacer521 Says:

    Kevin,

    Yeah, but she was most likely screened before that.

  8. culturepress Says:

    Pacer, thank you for taking a look at my brief post about Troopergate. This is a very insightful and thought-provoking commentary that you’ve written here. There is so much to be looked at in this election, and we all have our reasons for selecting our candidate. It’s only too unfortunate that there remains question about Obama’s background in the eyes of many voters, but even more unfortunate are the truly ignorant voters who still question whether he is an Arab or a Muslim, or even a terrorist. But I agree with you. If a John Edwards without-sex-scandal was the Democratic nominee, the election would still be about this close.

  9. pacer521 Says:

    Larry,

    Thanks for the comment — its good to see people “respectively” disagreeing these days — we’ve been a bit short on that presently.

    Look, I support Obama, and you said you didn’t. Fine by me. So with the abortion and taxing policies, nothing either of us say will end up settled.

    But as far as the “threatening legal action” and Obama trying not to have people dig into his personal life, I’d like to see some proof for that.

    thank a lot for the comment and read!

  10. pacer521 Says:

    donstuff,

    thanks for the comment. It’s really your decision, but I can tell you that the Republicans are purposely trying to throw the election!

  11. pacer521 Says:

    chamay0,

    Thanks a bunch for the compliments and really all the help that you have done for this blog — but I must speak out on this, in my opinion, you can’t wish death on anyone, regardless of their beliefs.

    Your post put up a good point and that video was certainly crazy, but what I think is that on the strategic side, McCain has to launch these attacks to have a chance. Hillary Clinton attacked Obama (not nearly as harsh) in not the same light but in the same strategic way. My point is that this is to win a race.

    Do I think what McCain is saying is wrong? Yes. It’s unethical, rude, and beyond anything that should be said right now. And some McCain supporters as well — out there.

    But we all must understand that in the end no one is perfect, and politicians run to win, and win to govern. Thanks for the comment.

  12. pacer521 Says:

    culturepress,

    Thanks for the comment — you are surely right about the fact that Obama is being fired apon not by his policies but his race and background.

    Could you elaborate a bit on the last sentence about Edwards? I think I’d (as well as the whole comment section) would like to hear something about that topic.

    Thanks for commenting, and not to mention you have quite a good blog yourself — I’d encourage my readers to check it out!

  13. Larry Says:

    pacer521,

    It’s not so much digging into his personal life, although the connection with Ayers was part of what I was referring to.

    In Chicago, he threatened legal action against a radio station for having Stanley Kurtz on a show, talking about his book detailing the Obama/Ayers connection. You can read some of the details in an article I posted earlier.

    The most troubling part of what I wrote about is the way he has been trying to stop ads from running in Missouri that detail his voting record on 2nd Amendment issues. He has threatened legal action, instead of explaining his votes. Again, you can read some background in my article. It also contains some links that further detail what has been happening.

    Thanks for letting me comment.

  14. pacer521 Says:

    Larry,

    Thanks for commenting again, as long as anyone has a point and its not spam, I’ll put a comment up for discussion.

    I guess now it is really people’s individual choices for what to believe and what to not. Thanks for the link to your post.

  15. rjjrdq Says:

    If Hillary were there-it would already be over. Obama could have come back in 8 years-more than enough experience under his belt and it would have been another landslide. 16 years of Dem rule. Now…Remember that famous photo of Harry S. holding up the paper, “Dewey Defeats Truman”? It’s close enough to where it could happen.

  16. Larry Says:

    I will say this, John McCain certainly isn’t the best candidate the Republicans could have put forth. I would give anything to see Mike Huckabee in this race. I believe he is the only Republican who could have stayed with Barack Obama, as far as debating goes. A debate between Huckabee and Obama would have been very interesting. Not only that, but Huckabee proved himself a very capable leader in Arkansas and he would have done a good job as President. Hopefully he will run again in 2012, if Obama wins the election.

  17. dootz Says:

    I think that the tighter-than-perhaps-expected race, though Obama is leading, is indicative of the American people’s hesitancy about questions on Obama’s past. Some support him because of the hope he represents or his policies – regardless of his arguably murky past. But others still want to “look under the hood,” and they won’t feel comfortable until they know more.

  18. 1superdave Says:

    You seem to be a rational ( but misguided) person and for that I compliment you, but in all fairness, with most of the media carrying the water for Obama, It realy is surpriseing he’s not futher ahead. Add to the points you made, that he’s just plain green, and has yet to say what steps he will take to manage the banking crisis. Also your mention of John Edwards is the first time I have seen his name mentioned since a week or so after the story broke. Can I say Mark Foley. Isn’t It strange that the Edwards story droped off the radar so quickly. Also a couple of dem govenors. Do you think the responce would be the same if they had a (R) beside their names?

  19. tidewaterjackson Says:

    Hi, Pacer,
    Thanks for checking out my blog recently and suggesting this link to one of your posts.

    I think the reality is more, though, that the country is still very split between liberal/conservative & Democrat/Republican. I think no matter who was on either side that this election will be relatively close.

    Add to that a political environment where either side feels free to distort facts in an effort to slime their opponent and the factor of racism which you don’t mention, and then you get why Obama isn’t further ahead.

    Thanks for the chance to comment,
    Tidewater Jackson

  20. pacer521 Says:

    rjjrdq,

    I think you put up an interesting point. However, it occurs to me that if Hillary were to be in Obama’s position today, then McCain would attack way more. I guess that’s another post though…

    thanks for the comment — and to everyone: I just woke up and I am answering everyone’s comment.

  21. pacer521 Says:

    Larry,

    Thanks for making some interesting points in this thread. I guess it is again your opinion to suggest Mike Huckabee, but to me (as a 13 year old liberal) who isn’t going to the polls this November, I at this point don’t like any Republican candidate nearly enough to support.

    As far as my views, I may be a liberal, but come another election, I may like a Republican more than the Democratic pick. I mostly go by the candidate, but will admit I am slightly left.

  22. pacer521 Says:

    dootz,

    I agree. The American public is certainly smart enough to “look under the hood” and find out who the candidates really are. That obviously happened to Sarah Palin when she was elected, and Obama should be asked about his past.

    But to me, a candidate can get away with a few more things that the public will let though. As long as he does not pose a threat or have a criminal background of any sort, he is fine for me. I don’t care if he lived on the same street as BIll Ayers, I just personally care about his policies.

    Thanks for the comment.

  23. pacer521 Says:

    1superdave,

    thanks for the comment, what about this post (or my blog) is misguiding?

    As far as you points, Obama has clearly explained the economic crisis and what he will do to solve it a number of times, just look at the stump speeches he’s giving in the midwest at the moment.

    I think that with the media, there are some more liberal television stations, but with Murdock, people saying that the media is left in total simply are ignoring Murdock’s empire of conservative outlets.

    I also think that the reason Edwards got off the radar this quick was simply because his press had to compete with arguably the most important presidential election ever held, and no — it would make no difference if he were on the right.

  24. pacer521 Says:

    tidewaterjackson,

    No problem — you made some great points in your post.

    You essentially hit the point right on — like I explained in my last post, because of these candidates, people are taking very far apart sides, and that is being led to attacking the opposition rather than promoting your candidate.

    Thanks for the comment!

  25. Kevin Robles Says:

    Pacer,

    Responding to SuperDave, I think you are right. The historic nature of this presidential race is partly the reason he wasn’t talked about much thereafter. Also, there were a lot of unknowns in the story, was the baby his? etc. I think SuperDave seems to be a bit more partisan and less objective. He uses a typical right-wing “Oh the media’s fault” line. Well, you tell me if your buddies in Fixed News are objective? Yeah, so what if MSNBC is biased, we want our biased network too. When it comes to CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, they are not as biased as Fixed News or MSNBC.

    1SuperDave,

    The Larry Craig stunt was just that a stunt, the reason it took longer was because it was as he himself wanted the attention for actually stay as a senator. (or representative, I forgot) So it wasn’t the media, it was him who kept the fire going by staying as a congressmen.

    P.S. Pacer521,

    how do I add one of those icons you gave me in my comments section, thanks!

  26. pacer521 Says:

    Kevin,

    First off — your really helping out my blog in the comment section, its really generating good discussion. Your going to amount to a very good and popular blogger if we can get visits to your blog — the content is very much there, now we just need visits.

    Here is the piece of code that you use to put it in:

    replace the “feed address” with the url of your feed (whether it is feedburner or just the xml) and the “image location” with the url of the image you want to use.

    To get this, if you use a mac, than control click on the image, and choose “copy image url.”

    Put the finished snippet of code in a “text” widget on the top right of your blog and you are set!

  27. dog's eye view Says:

    I disagree that if Hillary were the nominee, this race would already be over (presumably with her having election in the bag).

    I think the GOP would have smeared her up one side and down the other, and that many of their culture warriors would have showed up to bat down Clintonism.

    Besides which, she would not have done the full court press for new voters and re-energizing disaffected voters, who will help carry the Democratic party forward. She could rest on her laurels more with her beloved Appalachian and working white class supporters.

    A lot of the young voters who supported Obama would not have cheered Hillary sticking it out until a terrible and divided convention in late August and then putting the party together again.

    And it’s ridiculous to think that young (and older) Obama supporters who registered and voted in the primaries will not turn out for the general election.

    Obama may have lost a few die-hard PUMAs and people who cannot see him for his skin color, but let them go.

  28. nmmillan Says:

    Thanks for checking out my blog! I hope you keep reading…now when you said your were a 13 year old political blogger did you mean that you are a political blogger who happens to be thirteen, or that you have been blogging about politics for thirteen years? I’m assuming you meant the later, but I could be wrong…as for this particular post, I would say that yes, his past is keeping the race close, but I think it’s only close because people are feeding into the fear machine, basically holding on to anything that will paint Barack in a bad light, but if you want to go with a not so spotless past why aren’t people bringing up The Keating 5?

  29. pacer521 Says:

    dog’s eye view,

    I personally agree with your opinion rather than the previous commenter’s point. Mostly because of the ugly convention, I think that Obama was the only Democratic candidate this year who had a change for oval office.

    I agree with the last sentence.

    thanks for reading and commenting!

  30. pacer521 Says:

    Nmillian,

    No, I am thirteen years old. Maybe I should reword that…

    Thanks for the comment, funny point about the Keating 5.

  31. Kevin Robles Says:

    Thanks Pacer, check out my blog, see if the one I put is alright.

    http://www.pagezy.com/

  32. pacer521 Says:

    Kevin,

    That looks pretty cool! It seems like you are a bit more tech savvy than me when it comes to RSS.

  33. david Says:

    The misguided comment was was about you as a person ie political views. I was saying it is refreshing to hear someone on the left presenting their views without the rancor. The comment about me from Kevin above Is an example of that rancor. I think you would agree that it was historic that all three anchors for the alphabet networks accompanied Obama on his recent trip to Iraq and Europe. I think another example of the media bias I see is the Gaffs tha Biden has made that are ignored totally or brushed aside. Everyone of my age remember that Dan Quail was never allowed to escape the Potatoe thing. Joe didn’t have the president or the medium right in his FDR /tv gaff. Even Hilary and snl picked up on the kid glove treatment that Obama got during the primaries. I am unashamedly conservative, but also am and objective person that does see things for what they are. When I look at the tent that makes up the democat party, it is easy for me to see where the saying politics make strange bed fellows, came from.

  34. freedomrebel Says:

    Pacer, great job, thanks for the link.

    I have never liked negative campaigning, to me it shows a lack of intelligence, it reduces your strategy to gotcha sound bites. To throw the American People off the issues that are truly important that we should be focusing on.

    What McCain has done is vile on so many levels. As history shows us, getting a mob in a frenzy has very dire consequences. He is playing to the ugly underbelly of racism and the unrealistic fears some people have that all muslim people are “bad”. A good example of that is the Mosque that was gassed in Dayton, Ohio after a Pro-McCain supporter the Clarion Fund sent out 28 million copies of a DVD that was anti-muslim. That broke my heart that 300 people were affected and that the gas was released on babies and children in a separate room.

    On a different note, Obama has gained so much ground in the last two weeks with no end in sight so far. I think he would be even further ahead if McCain hadn’t flat out lied about all his main talking points (pertaining to Obama) and incited this fear and panic into some people. I am glad that most voters are seeing through that political strategy, but we still have some loose wing-nuts to worry about.

    No one is perfect, I personally don’t expect them to be. Most people learn more from their mistakes in life than they do from their achievements, IMHO. It’s hard for me to say if Edwards would be further ahead or not if he were scandal free. I happen to be a fan of Kucinich. Though I do admire Edwards for his work on the poverty issues and the wonderful job his wife Elizabeth has tried to do with getting Healthcare into the forefront. In my opinion, if I had to guess, I would say no Edwards would not be doing better. My reasons, I feel Barack is not only more intelligent about the Constitution he understands the “Middle Class” of America better. The bonus, he is genuinely at heart a wonderful person who has tried to make a difference. I haven’t been able to say this for awhile but I would be very proud to have him for our President.

  35. pacer521 Says:

    David,

    Thanks, and you make an interesting point, but I still can’t go past that you keep mentioning past events. Obama’s trip to the middle east was the most evident news at that time, and if McCain went to the middle east, then those three anchors would accompany him too.

    Biden’s gaffe was old, and the press (liberal or conservative) has other things to talk about. Our economy is in crisis, we are in a war, and we have the most important elections yet.

  36. culturepress Says:

    Thank you, Pacer– I’ve said this before, but must say again for emphasis, that you’ve got to be the most brilliant and articulate 13-yr old out there!! You have a truly intelligent and compelling blog here.

    I must actually re-state my comment about Edwards. I meant to say that if Edwards did not have a sex scandal and was on the Dem ticket for president, it would not be an Edwards landslide, but certainly not for the same reasons that the McCain-Obama election has been so close, for the most part, over these past few months. Edwards had his own problems/flaws even before the sex scandal. He seemed to have a hard time bringing his party together, and he was often too vague in his stances and would occasionally take a stance that clearly favored the GOP. I don’t think Edwards would have been a strong candidate, for personality and political reasons; nothing of course would be a factor against him in terms of race or a presumed religious affiliation.

    Obama has working against him 1) race (and of course I AM NOT pulling the race card–this is a fact), 2) his non-European/Muslim name, and 3) true that he has also been vague on some of his stances, but only rarely and not nearly as much as Edwards. For those Republicans who keep saying that I’m pulling the race-card, come on! There are plenty of Americans who are saying out loud that they will not vote for a “black man,” e.g. the Steelworkers union (I believe in Pittsburgh?) got together last week, and to pull support for Obama, and some union workers actually said “no way, I’m not voting for that n-word” even though the leaders of the union said repeatedly,
    “look you’ve GOT to support Obama, because he’s really the only candidate who is going to support US.” And there are plenty of Americans who are ignorant enough to think that “Barack Hussein Obama” is a terrorist name, just because it sounds *something like* Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden. If Barack Obama was white or his name was “Joe Richards”, he would have definitely had a higher lead over McCain throughout this process, no doubt about it.

  37. pacer521 Says:

    freedomrebel,

    Thanks for reading my blog and leaving such a thoughtful response.

    I too don’t like negative campaigning, because because I am thirteen years old and can’t vote, when you look at the strategy of it, it works. Lying works as well.

    But I think that McCain has been overusing this. He is shooting every chance he can get, and it’s working a less of a rate than if he could try negative campaigning more successfully.

    Thanks for your insight and last paragraph, I agree with you there as well. Although I never did support Kucinich, John Edwards to me is a nice person and he has done a lot for healthcare. The thing is that he made his family life a centerpiece in his campaign, and that took a toll when the scandal broke out.

    Thanks again for the comment and happy reading!

  38. Kevin Robles Says:

    Ah david, see but John McCain used to be the Medias darling also. I’m not saying the media isn’t biased to some point. What about the fact that Gov. Palin’s husband was part of a secessionist movement?? You don’t hear much about that except from Keith Olbermann or Bill Maher. And the overseas trip, there was not much news during that time. Somehow going to meet other world heads is bad if Obama does it, but its perfectly fine if McCain goes around the world. In part its bias because it = higher ratings. People are still in love with Obama, and that = ratings. If Fixed News would start being objective, its ratings would go down.

    And david, I don’t know what rancor you are talking about. I am merely pointing out a common talking point. Please tell me if I insulted in any way.

    Also, please, say something postive about your candidate. It’s easy to be against something.

  39. pacer521 Says:

    culturepress,

    Thanks for the great compliments! I guess I one of the only (if not the only) people under 15 on the web who is crazy enough to write analysis after analysis on politics rather than other things, but its fun for me.

    Thanks for the answer in your second paragraph, and I agree with your points mostly about what is against Obama right now. The race thing has really hit hard, and it really sucks. It seems like the republicans are trying to accuse the liberals with the “race card” comments, but the truth is the radicals don’t mind that there are votes taken away from Obama because of racial people.

    Obama is vague on some of his policies, you are right. But the bigger ones that the conservatives are hitting on are mainly the ones that he stresses, like the economy. Thanks for the comments.

  40. Kevin Robles Says:

    Pacer responding to freedomrebel,

    I agree with you. McCain is beating that drum so much people are gonna go deaf. I mean what has he introduced in terms of policy towards this economic crisis? All he did was ‘suspend’ his campaign and slow the process down. And the ‘fixed’ bailout bill, all it had was more pork, and no ideas. Nada, zip, zilch. Yet the Pork Barrel cryptonit, McCain, still voted for it. The irony is that the bill was suposed to encourage house republicans to vote for it, and all they did was go against their “beliefs”

    And now the markets are down 20% and nothing has been fixed. What McCain has proposed is buying every single bad loan, and I live under one of those, and basically socialise our homes and housing market.
    Chucks, I thought Obama was a liberal!

  41. pacer521 Says:

    2nd Kevin Comment (above).

    Thanks for responding — we’re getting quite a lot of comments. :-)

  42. pacer521 Says:

    First Kevin Comment,

    I think that the media is biased in very many different ways — sorry for the short response, I’ve got to go to lunch. Someone hold down the fort for the time being!

  43. david Says:

    Biden’s gaffe was about the finacial crisis, only a week or so ago, and he said something to the effect that America wants leaders with a command of the facts. He then went on to say that In 1929 when the stock market crashed, FDR went on tv imediately and told the American people exactly what had happened. FDR wasn’t president at the time, and tv wasn’t out then either. The reason you didn’t know he said it is because you didn’t hear Chris Matthews Or Kieth Oberman say a word about it. If you do, due diligents you can find the exact comment on the net. That’s my point though. Another example would be him asking someone in a wheel chair at a rally to stand up “stand up Chuck and let them see you “. I agree that as humans we mis-speak or do clumbsy things. The problem comes in when for political gain the media excuses one and relentlessly pursues the other. One point I take issue with you on, is that Obama has not said specificly what he will do to fix the credit mess and has only attacked McCain for offering to help mortgage holders keep their homes, and thats an Obama complaint that enough was not being done to help Mainstreet deal with the effects of the crisis. THe past actions of people is the only indication we may have as to what they shall do in the future. Past associations also matter. Oh , and McCain has been to the war zones in Iraq and Afganistan and not a single news anchor ever went along,come on.

  44. culturepress Says:

    Thank you again Pacer! Even though Obama has occasionally been vague on his policies, he is still a far superior candidate to the one who’s halfway-dead, doesn’t know how many houses he owns, and sings “Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran,” with a running mate whose platform is “winking-and-smiling.”

    It’s just too bad that there is still so much racism and xenophobia that to some Americans, it doesn’t even matter that Obama’s policies match their own. Even though Obama’s never been caught–or even accused of–any sex sandal or *abuse of power*, these ignorami(ignoramus plural?) dislike him …regardless of what he says or does.

    It’s great to know that there are young people out there who are passionate about politics. I was really passionate about politics myself, when I was your age (before the Internet age), but I don’t think I was ever as eloquent as you are! Keep up the great work.

  45. Kevin Robles Says:

    Again you didnt respond to how I insulted, or how Sen. McCain double-spoke about the pork, or how the media is in love, in a weird and freky way, with Palin, because no mention of her seccessionist ties.

    Like you said, nobody is perfect. And yes, MSNBC is biased sometimes. But you refer to nothing biased from Fixed News. Yes, past associations matter. So an ambassador is a terrorist, and good friend of Ronald Reagan is a terrorist, because they served on the same board as Obama and Ayers. The reason they didn’t cover McCain’s trips as much is because he has done so before. I’ll get back to you on the specificity about Obama’s plan.

  46. pacer521 Says:

    I’ll let Kevin and David duke this one out.

  47. pacer521 Says:

    culturepress,

    I agree, it really is too bad about all of this. Young people are really out future, and it is great to see more of us out there.

    thanks for all your comments!

  48. Kevin Robles Says:

    100% true my friend, 100% true. Thank God more and more young people have the ability to think for themselves. All these new young voters are going to be Dems for the rest of their lives.

  49. david Says:

    Ah kevin McCain was the media’s darling because he was going against his on party. That meant they could propagandize with him. “see Senator McCain doesn’t go along with those rascally republicans” But to pacers post that is why , I think McCain isn’t doing better, because a lot of true conservatives like me, don’t trust him.
    Kevin I know you are young but you don’t realy think Todd is a separatist, anymore than I believe Obama is a closet Muslim.
    Kevin. I am 52 years old and grew up in a country that I don’t even recognize today. I don’t turn on The Fox News Channel Every morning and tankup on the days talking points. Instead I search through all the media until I find a point of view that I agree with. You do the same thing. The difference, I believe is that when I was in grade school it was part of the culture to love America and to love the flag. At logtown school where I attended 1st-8th we would run the flag up the pole every morning to revaly and bring it down to taps every evening. We were taught that the flag should never touch the ground and should be handle with respect. When I see Old Glory pass by I still stand at attention and tears well up in my eyes. I love our country and it drives me crazy to hear holliwood actors say vile things against her. I can’t bring myslef to wacth movies by them because it reminds me of the hatefull things they have said. Our country isn’t perfect but it’s still exceptional. When I look at the coalition, that is the democrat party I am amazed at the conflicting forces that have banned together, to low rate and destroy anything that’s good and holsome. The result is you have 50% of the country like me stuck in the past if you will and we don’t see all change as good. The other 50% is a hodgepodge coalition of groups whose only bond is that they all disagree with us more than they disagree with each other. I can’t watch Oberman and see any credibility in what he says because he only sees the news as how is this going to forward my agenda. I want someone to just tell me the truth and let me decide. If you were to read some of my post on my blog you will find me calling out Shepard Smith and others for sensationalizeing their reports. You shoudn’t be so quick to say “he’s just a typical repubican” But hen again I guess most republicans and conservatives do have more in common. than the dems do.

  50. Kevin Robles Says:

    Thanks for posting more about yourself. Now let me return the favor.

    I was born in Puerto Rico, a colony of the U.S. Political division is in my blood, as it is the #1 sport over there. I used to be in private school and in a Christian Military Academy. We moved here to Fl 4 years ago because my mom had cancer. Medical treatment we better here. I’m now 15 yrs old, and I’m home-schooled. Ok, if you had any questions about who I was, there you have it.

    Now, about Todd. He is probably not a seperatist, but the problem is that the republicans, pls dont thell me they aren’t subliminally, suggesting Obama is a terrorist. And according to Palin’s logic, she, or at least Todd is a terrorist because, because, he was registered to a seperatist party. Not because of his actions, but because he was a seperatist. Now, that would be right in-line with suggesting Obama is a terrorist because he was on the same educational board in which an ambassador, bill ayers, and other respected conservatives were in. So, to ask you, what is your honest opinion about Gov. Palin?

  51. david Says:

    Pacer. It’s not like you to totaly duck a question raised.

  52. Kevin Robles Says:

    By the way Pacer, congrats with the 50+ comments. Is that the highest you’ve ever had?

  53. Kevin Robles Says:

    hey, if anybody wants to see the Florida Mail-in ballot, here it is:

    http://pagezy.com/?page_id=28

  54. david Says:

    Kevin. If Sarah Palin Is the complete idiot that she is made out to be why not just let her be. Instead she’s been attacked relentlessly, (by the press).Ayers is an unrepentant terorist who on the very day that the world trade center towers were knocked down said he wished he had done more,in the New York Times. He has met with Hugo Chaves, recently, and he’s trying to institute a n education corriculum that is mraxist. If the dems with all their mudrakers is Alaska had one minute shead of proof about any alegations of any wrongdoing, don’t you agree they would have came with it. Be honest and make up your own mind here. Can you agree with any of the America hating comments from Pasor Wright. You and pacer seem to be very bright and decerning young people with a sence of fairness. Please, all I ask is that you read through the comments to this post and objectively read the comments, not looking for bullet points but the entire context and you will see a very harsh tone. You may think you see a harshness to my tone but then it’s confrontational, at least to you. Please just reread them, just as if they weren’t chalenging or agreeing but just as if you were reading a book or a magazine. I just want to bebate in the arena of ideas. It’s ok if I disagree with you or yuo with me. The tone should be civil and thoughtful. The only namecalling I see is from the left here.

  55. Kevin Robles Says:

    First off, nobody called Sarah Palin and idiot. Second, I’m not a religious person, so I don’t care what Rev. Wright has to say, to me hes just another nutcase preacher(not saying every preacher is). Obama said clearly he had never heard all of the stupid remarks Rev. Wright made. Third, who the heck is defending Ayers here? Your last comment seems as if I were defending him. Let me make it clear, NO! I would love to discuss policies, but you were the first to bring up ayers. You raise so many points, but how am I supposed to verify them, so please be more specific in your posts. Again, do you or do you not think Obama is a terrorist? And do you or do you not think William Ayers is a friend, close or not, with Obama. Lastly, do you or do you not think that Obama should be held accountable for what Ayers did? Good day, I am going to play my game for a while.

  56. pacer521 Says:

    everyone,

    I’m back from a two hour tennis tournament and lunch! Sheesh guys, let me take a break here. Oh, and the most I have gotten in 66, but hopefully I’ll pass that soon. hehee

    I’ll start answering the questions now.

  57. david Says:

    Kevin, not so testy. It all is so very relavant. I don’t think Obama is a terorist but I know Ayers is. The full extent of the friendship between them is an issue of truthfulness and honesty. The facts haven’t fully been veted, and now we find out that Bernadine Dorn, Ayers wife and co-terorist worked at the same law firm as Michelle Obama as much as twenty years ago. Obama’s statement on Ayers has evolved from he lives in my neighborhood to I served on some boards with him to I thought he was rehabilitated. To put this in the best posible light would be to say he’s naive and shows poor judgement, but if you look at the socialist views they share the point could be made that it was no coincedence that Obama choose to launch his first campainge in Ayers living room. Obama should have to give a full account of this relationship
    Kevin you are naive if you believe that Obama could go to church with Wright for twenty years and not first have been drawn there by his political views or calculated that he needed his influence and suport. Either way it is relavant to his honesty ,judgement and caracter, all of which we don’t have a lot of sources to look at because he has never done much else. Policies are grown out of your political phylosophy. These relationships my give us the only true glimpse at What his political phylosophies are. Very relavant. As for Sarah ; idon’t guess you saw the Tina Fay skits from snl where se says she can see Rusia from her house, engage Kevin, engaue.

  58. david Says:

    Pacer;why is my icon removed and my 1superdave in my comments.

  59. pacer521 Says:

    To the bio comments from kevin and david,

    David,

    I understand that we (the youth) are questioning government. Yes, I am 13 years old.

    I think that this is extremely complicated, but the reason is that the vast majority of us are following the main stream media and family opinions, and the small number of us who understand political strategy and policies make our own decisions. Some of that small population is pro-McCain, and that is very good, mostly because we don’t follow trends.

    But David, it is not in my opinion right to question our patriotism just because at your youth America was in better shape. We are questioning government and supporting Obama because we think he is the best person to get America on the right track.

  60. pacer521 Says:

    Last david comment,

    I don’t know which comments you talking about, but I didn’t do anything on purpose.

  61. pacer521 Says:

    Kevin,

    Do you already have 5 subscribers? Or is that your hits? Way to go either way.

  62. pacer521 Says:

    David comment under Kevin’s Flordia Ballot Link (hmnm.. I’ve got to get a better way to respond here),

    I reread them, even thought that question wasn’t geared towards me (or at least I thought). Kevin (it seems like) has very good points and is a bit strong in bringing them out. But you fit the same description. I’m not trying to break up the fight here, but let me just point out that this has been really great to get this discussion.

    But neither of us said anything about Sarah Palin being an idiot or us agreeing with Reverend Wright. I also am not disputing that Ayers was a terrorist. That’s pretty out there.

  63. Kevin Robles Says:

    Again, no policy debate, just tactics. But to get to 67 comments for Pacer…

    So what if he had a fundrasier in his living room. Let me tell you something. My father ran for mayor in our hometown in PR. He would have countless fundraisers that, at times, he held them without knowing who lived there, because they offered to help him. Who knows what some of the people that lived there had done previously. It’s not like your going to ask everybody for a background check at a local fundraiser. As a senator, state senator or otherwise, I’m pretty sure It would be a bit hard to go to your church every single day. Maybe you’d have a chance to go on Sundays, but it is true that he was not there during those stupid remarks. And your probably going to say, well he should have known it by talking with others. Well, he’s a busy man, he was a senator, probably didn’t have time to talk with neighbors about what pastor said yesterday, or a couple of years ago. What about that pastor that called the Catholic Church “Great Whore” to paraphrase. John McCain furiously engaged himself to getting his endorsement. What about Phil Gramm, which he said that America is a “nation of whiners”? What about the fact that John McCain dumped his wife after he came back because of her health conditions? If I ask you how many houses you have, I’m pretty sure that you woul answer 1, or at least know how many you have.

    I can throw a lot of more dirt, but I don’t want to, because I really have never had a real policy discussion with someone, and unfortunately, I am still not having one.

    I’m sorry, what are you trying to infer with Sarah Palin and SNL? That I should have thrown the I can see Russia from my house? I thought this was supposed to be a knowledgable policy discussion, so I thought everybody already knew about Putin reering his head into Alaskan air space.

    Question, what has John McCain proposed or done that will help or has helped the economy?

  64. Kevin Robles Says:

    Thank you Pacer! (comment before last mine)

  65. pacer521 Says:

    David’s next response,

    Look, your just pulling out the McCain soundbites again. Whether Ayers had relation or not doesn’t mean a think about how Obama will lead this country. Sure, I’ve met people that have broken the law (ok, not blown up the capitol), but that’s not going to affect me in any way. I’d love to see you talk about McCain being a better PRESIDENT than Obama.

    As far as the Palin skit, you may be a bit out of luck there as well — the interview wasn’t changed. She said those things in the original.

  66. Larry Says:

    Kevin,

    You said the following.

    The problem I and a lot of other folks had with Obama and his trip overseas was not the fact that he met with foreign leaders, but rather that he tried to undermine our current sitting President and his policies while he was there. He actually tried to get the Iraqi leaders to postpone any decisions on US troop withdrawals until after a new President, presumably him, was inaugurated. No matter how you slice it, that is just plain wrong.”

    Somehow going to meet other world heads is bad if Obama does it, but its perfectly fine if McCain goes around the world.

  67. pacer521 Says:

    Thanks for joining the discussion! Was that quote from Kevin’s blog?

  68. david Says:

    Pacer plase don’t misconstrue my thought and discussion here. In trying to repond to kevin’s iquiring for me to be more specific. My comment is and always has been that two people can debate without name calling. In all honesty The post and responces are there. What is “fixed news” I don’t need sound bites, because I have my very own thoughts. I am cut to the quick when I hear anyone running our country down wether it’s reverend wright or Obama in germany or michelle saying America is a mean country. Sadly this election is a referendom on Obama. Given the choice between someone I don’t agree with on every point,but who love America and someone that wants to change the very fabric of a contry that I love, because he thinks it is fundementally bad, and those views are the same as ayers and wright,I have to go with McCain. Your post is about why Obama hasn’t closed the deal yet. I think all of this is very relavant to that post. People want to know more about these side issues because they are relavant to his caracter and Judgement. I will vote against Obama and not for Mccain. Pacer I know you can’t be denighing that Sarah has been portrayed badly and unfairly by the media. I think you are more Honest than that. Last point what happened to my icon and blog name 1superdave? Now it says david and i have wallpaper for and icon. others still have their own icons.

  69. Kevin Robles Says:

    Larry, I belive you put the quote on the wrong place

  70. pacer521 Says:

    David,

    Your 1superdave? That’s weird, I never changed that at all. Sorry about that, but I don’t think I want to go through dozens of comments to change that.

    About your comment, I do believe this is all very much in place. My point in the post was this: “Has McCain’s attacks narrowed the gap or not?”

    They have for sure provoked some great discussion, and I do also think that they have narrowed the gap myself, rightfully so or not. I do think that the media is biased against Palin because they are smart enough (in my opinion) to see that she can’t lead our country if something happened to McCain.

    Who do you support then?

  71. david Says:

    Thank you again Pacer! Even though Obama has occasionally been vague on his policies, he is still a far superior candidate to the one who’s halfway-dead, doesn’t know how many houses he owns, and sings “Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran,” with a running mate whose platform is “winking-and-smiling.”

    It’s just too bad that there is still so much racism and xenophobia that to some Americans, it doesn’t even matter that Obama’s policies match their own. Even though Obama’s never been caught–or even accused of–any sex sandal or *abuse of power*, these ignorami(ignoramus plural?)
    This is acomment to this blog from culturepess oct 11 12:15 Your answer Is I agree.Platform is winking and smiling. Am I one of the ignorami. I am one of the bitter clingers. Thats what Obama called me anyway.

  72. Kevin Robles Says:

    David,

    You are being very misguiding when talking about Obama. This is something that reflects on almost every Republican, its as if they are scared of somebody because they disagree, so that are fast to say lies like Michelle Obama says America is mean, or that Obama is in Germany. Obama doesn’t want to “change the very fabric of a contry that I love”. He wants to chang the policies of the last 8 years. I’m pretty sure you aren’t happy with the last 8 years, if not I’ve given you too much credit. Your implying that he wants to have total control over America, as in drive it into some total unkown in which only terrorists think of or dictators, or socialists. Very Sad. I support Obama for many reasons. One being that he isn’t an average joe. He is special, he has a special background that not a lot of people have. He wasn’t born into luxury. He fought for it. Another reason is that I don’t want the president to become like the quen of Englang. You know, just a figure which has no power. Why I say this? Because McCain is purely unqualified on the terms that he is being run by others. Others being major corporations, lobbyists, and special interests. Again, you say you want to have a policy discussion, but have provided no policy put forward from McCain that will do anything to help this country, or any policies that are different from Pres. Bush. Please elaborate!

  73. pacer521 Says:

    Kevin,

    Sorry, that was me. He left a comment, and then said it was in the wrong place and gave me directions. I must have not followed them…where is the quote meant to go?

  74. Kevin Robles Says:

    What Larry is saying is totally absurd and debunked, now give me a minute to find the link…

  75. pacer521 Says:

    david,

    Is it just me, or did you just change your tone? hehehe, I’m half asleep anyway. Also, I didn’t quite get the last point there with the comment from culturepress.

  76. david Says:

    Pacer I just want to know that Obama can lead the country if he’s elected. Where is the colective concern for that. Back to the icon thing, I now have to go through security to post a comment on this blog. there are three fields i have to fill in before the comment is accepted. Name, email, website. After that the icon changed.

  77. Kevin Robles Says:

    What Larry said is a lie. I can’t find that article, but even White House officials there said that Obama did not mentioin anything to what Larry talked about. So stop spreadin lies Larry. Also, IF obama going to Iraq undermines the president, then McCain going to Iraq also? Come on, where is the logic in your post?

  78. Kevin Robles Says:

    Pacer,

    what do you mean by lead? I mean, he lead his own campaign and beat the Clintons! The Clintons! Thats a pretty good achievement in itself. But thats just one thing. Another thing, I’m not worried about him because we were able to survive with this inept president we have. If he could get us through 8 years, anybody could.

    An important point. What about the fact that Obama had the correct judgement in being against the war in Iraq from the beginning? Talk about putting country first! He predicted almost every problem we have now. Of course, you’ll probably say, well that was then and this is now. What if Obama were president then? We wouldn’t have a messed up economy, we would have captured Osama Bin Laden, and we wouldn’t be spending 10 billion a month. Only those with real love for country would have been against that war, especially for a senator, which would have been a very unpopular choice. I honor Sen. McCains service, but that is not enough to be president. Period.

  79. pacer521 Says:

    David,

    Well, I think the fundamental difference between us is that I think Obama can lead and you think he can’t.

    I think you may have logged off. Try to log back on.

  80. pacer521 Says:

    Kevin,

    Jeez, you answered me quick. I think it would be a good idea to subscribe to my posts and maybe even comments…

    I mean by lead this: Barack Obama can lead our country, dig us out of the multiple crisis’s that we are in, get us out of Iraq without starting something worse than then what is already going on, and lead the free world.

  81. Paulette Says:

    pacer521 – very insightful post!

    If I am drowning it doesn’t matter to me who throws me a rope – white, black, brown, red or yellow.

    My bills don’t care if I’m white, black, brown, red or yellow – they must be paid.

    I don’t trust McCain to do what’s best for America but I TRUST Barack Obama to do what’s best for America.

  82. Kevin Robles Says:

    I’m sorry Pacer, I meant Dave not you, that comment was directed towards David. Sorry!

  83. pacer521 Says:

    Paulette,

    Thanks for the compliments and reading my blog, you put out a great metaphor.

  84. pacer521 Says:

    Kevin,

    no problem, we’re all typing pretty fast.

  85. mjb5406 Says:

    Well said… like you, I am a non-racist liberal Obama supporter. It’s odd, because members of my family will not vote for Obama, by their own (bigoted) admission, because he’s black. I guess they think voting for a 72 year old who wanders aimlessly around a stage (during the last debate) as if suddenly stricken by Alzheimer’s is the best course of action to take.

    The latest nail in the McCain campaign’s coffin, the finding that Palin abused her power as governor, would be funny if the responses by her spin masters weren’t so pathetic. “You got to read the report” she says… well, if you do, you’d understand that Branchflower’s findings have little to do with her firing of Walter Monegan… and everything to do with hw she allowed Todd, her ever-loving hubby, to use the office of the Governor to do HIS dirty work. Yes, in any at-will employment state (Illinois is one like Alaska is) you can fire someone for not coming his hair properly… but you cannot use your ELECTED office to let NON-ELECTED people do what they please. I doubt if that appeared in the Palin’s wedding vows!

  86. Clay Says:

    Howdy, Pacer; thanks for your comment on my blog. How’d you find it, by the way? =)

    I’m gonna rephrase your question as: If Barack Obama were white and had a typical Anglo-Saxon name and hadn’t “consorted with terrorists” [eyeroll], would this election be more of a landslide? My answer is “yes, absolutely.”

    That said, I’m not sure this Bill Ayers stuff is actually having an effect on anybody but people who already support McCain. We’re 20 months into this campaign; the Obama family has been vetted as much as it can possibly be vetted, I think.

    I think the fact that there are still “undecideds” can be attributed to the fact that some people think Obama’s the right person to vote for but can’t bring themselves to vote for a “n*****.”

    You’re an excellent thinker and writer for being thirteen. =)

  87. pacer521 Says:

    mjb5406,

    that really sucks about your family not voting for Obama because he is black. we need to get past that. I agree with your comment, and thanks for posting and reading my blog! I always enjoy insight here, as you can probably tell.

  88. Kevin Robles Says:

    mjb5406,

    welcome to the discussion here. See if you can help me understand David or 1superdave. All you have to do is go up the comments and read what I’m talking about. BTW, its really unfortunate that your family won’t vote for him because hes black. Some people are like that, and its just dispicable. I mean, who could make more sense than Obama? McCain is not one of them.

  89. pacer521 Says:

    Clay,

    I found your blog through the wordpress politics tag, and thanks for the compliments.

    I agree wholeheartedly with your second paragraph — if racism and the terrorist factor were out of the question then we would be looking at a landslide, no question.

    I disagree, though, with the third paragraph. I think that McCain is overdoing the negative campaigning and it isn’t working very well, but it is having some effect.

    great comment.

  90. jiovanni Says:

    To put it simply, the race is close because of his race. We really don’t know much about McCain’s background and his associations so to play that game is kinda misleading in my opinion. I also think that if you “don’t know Obama” by now then you never wanted to know him in the first place. He has been campaigning for about 2 years, wrote 2 books, even has audio books if you don’t want to read, did god knows how many interviews, his page has a youtube account that is filled with videos of his speeches, his policies, little behind the scenes clips, his wife’s speeches and interviews. He even has a Blueprint for Change with a detailed outline of his policies so if you really want to get to know him politically and/or personally, then you can easily.

    I do think he is going to win despite the prejudices that is definitely there. Obama knew this would be a problem coming into this but he won the primaries by being the great leader that he is naturally. Okay this is getting bias so I’ll digress. lol

    Great question. Thanks for asking.

  91. pacer521 Says:

    jiovanni,

    I think you are spot on about the race thing, in my opinion it is not biased to say that race is a big factor in the election. It is. I’m also pretty surprised at the number or undecideds still out there. You’d think they would have gotten enough information by now.

    Thanks for the comment!

  92. Bell Says:

    I would’ve voted for Edwards had he made it to the primaries by the time it got to my state. As I got to know Obama better, I became much more excited to support him than Edwards. I don’t know that Edwards would be in a landslide position at this point, because Obama inspires us. The angry mobs, are ugly but small. The independents are going to Obama, McCain is even loosing some republican supporters to Obama. While there is a faction of fear, I think they would’ve voted for McPalin either way.

  93. Kevin Robles Says:

    Bell, my father liked Edwards in the beginning, but I convinced him to vote for Obama here in FL for the primaries.

  94. pacer521 Says:

    Bell,

    I agree that Obama is more inspiring. He also would have to face the youth — that would be a bit hard to tackle. Great comment and thanks for reading my post.

  95. mjb5406 Says:

    Kevin,

    You know, one of the fundamental differences I see between the McCain and Obama camps is that McCain likes to take preemptive, fact-stretching, taken-out-of-context shots at Obama. Where Obama normally strikes out at McCain being “out of touch” McCain now focuses on the negative… and, up until the last fesw days, he seemed to condone his sheep being caught up in the falsehoods (I refer to his telling the woman in Wisconsin that he is not an Arab). Now, I hate to sound negative myself, but in any politcal campaign there will always be those misguided people who buy into the attacks and fact-twisting… like those who think that Obama’s middle name of “Hussein” is indicative of his character. My middle name is “Joseph”, like Joseph Stalin… ewhat doe that say about me?

    All too often people have their opinions shaped by the things that take the least amount of work to understand. So many want to be “spoon fed” what should believe. Those that buy into the false claims of McCain just accept it as truth, without doing the research into whether it’s true or false, or whether statements are taken out of context or are just a part of a complete statement (the McCain campaign LOVES taking bits and pieces of Obama’s speeches). I’m sure some Obama supporters fall into this trap as well, but by the tone of McCain and Palin’s rallies, it’s pretty obvious which ones are ready to defend their viewpoint to the point of violence.

    Neither candidate is blameless, but if you look at the bottom line, the party that subscribes to focusing on character assassination rather than issues is the Republican Party. Can Obama lead? Of course! He’s intelligent and articulate, and, in actuarial terms, will live longer than McCain. McCain hasn’t proven that he truly is a “maverick” or that he’s any different than “deer in the headlights” Bush.


  96. First of all, the race is NOT close…
    The RCP national poll average tells us this: Obama +7.4%

    In terms of popular votes, that amounts to a 10-14 million vote victory. It also ensures an electoral vote landslide.

    Look, this country will probably NEVER see another 60-40 victory for a presidential candidate. There are just too many differences in too many states. However, any Obama victory 4% and over solidifies an ideological mandate to accompany what will be a large working majority in congress.

    http://democratictribune.com

  97. pacer521 Says:

    mjb5406,

    Thanks for the response, and I know this wasn’t directed towards me. I agree with your first paragraph and comment in total, especially the middle name thing.

  98. Jennifer Says:

    I think you said it right when you said “The party that can’t lose [Dem.] has nominated a candidate that can’t win, and the party that can’t win [Rep.] has nominated a candidate that can’t lose.” Hopefully, God in his infinite wisdom will be with us. This election is not over until it’s over. There is still time for anything to happen. Take care and thank you for checking out my blog!

  99. Kevin Robles Says:

    Dem Tribune,

    don’t go to RCP anymore. I know they have daily polls, but they try and cherrypick polls for McCain. If you want to know about polls, go to http://www.fivethirtyeight.com

    Don’t forget to stop by mine!

    http://www.pagezy.com

  100. pacer521 Says:

    Democratic Tribune,

    I don’t know that 7.4 percent could be called a landslide, and although I don’t think that McCain will win, this is still something to discuss. Thanks for the comment.

  101. Kevin Robles Says:

    Either the sever is slow, or Pacer is blocking my comments! ;) I responded to Dem Tribune but it doesnt show up

  102. pacer521 Says:

    Jennifer,

    Thanks for the comment, it is really true that it is not over till its over. Anything is possible — we’re discussing politics.

  103. Kevin Robles Says:

    Ok, now its showing up! ;)

  104. pacer521 Says:

    Kevin,

    Sorry, you put a few links in your response to democratic tribune, so askiment though you were a spammer. I figured it out.

    In other news — 100 comments!

  105. Kevin Robles Says:

    woohoo! I hope I can get 100 in one day!

  106. pacer521 Says:

    yeah — we’ll now that is has happened it doesn’t seem like a milestone anymore. Maybe 200 will come some time, but I guess I am setting the bar a bit high.

  107. Kevin Robles Says:

    Haha, I hope not! But let me crack 10 first!

  108. pacer521 Says:

    Don’t get down on yourself — you’ve only been blogging for two days. look at some of my first posts, and you’ll see there are no comments attached.

    Another note — I got a visit from Wasilla, Alaska! No joke!

  109. Kevin Robles Says:

    HAHAHA!!!! That is very funny! How do you know, do you have Google Analytics?

  110. pacer521 Says:

    No I use who’s among us.

  111. Kevin Robles Says:

    Oh, I see. Hey, you ever thought about putting ads on your blog, or does wordpress.com not let you?

  112. pacer521 Says:

    I have thought about it, and my friends have bugged me because I could actually make some money — but people have cautioned me because of its appearance, but the main thing is that they clutter the blog.

  113. Kevin Robles Says:

    True, but there are some nice ads, for example, I put most of mine on the bottom, so they don’t interfere, but I still get the impression. For every 1000 impressions and per click are the most common ways of generatinv revenue. But I don’t blame you for not putting any ads at all.

  114. pacer521 Says:

    Yeah — yours are pretty hidden. If I continue to get this much readership — I’ll think about it.

  115. mjb5406 Says:

    Pacer,

    No, my 2nd post was not directed towards you… you don’t seem like the kind of person who follows a political franchise like a sheep. I think you research the issues and make your own informed choice.

  116. pacer521 Says:

    Mjb5406,

    Thanks, although I don’t know whether the sheep comment is a comment or not! Thanks for all your comment on my blog!

  117. LiberalSpirit Says:

    Pacer, every candidate in this day and age has an “unclear” past and/or dirt an opponent can try to make stick. I predict we will never see another run-away victory, because nobody is 100 percent immune from those kinds of attacks.

    I think Obama’s past is much more an issue than McCain’s, only because McCain has spent so much time talking about it. We don’t hear much about McCain’s past, because Obama has been hitting McCain on issues and his voting record and his lack of a coherent plan for… well, just about everything. I mean, why bother with the cheap shots?

    What’s amazing to me is… this is the kind of campaign we have always said we wanted. And now that it’s here, we’re not quite sure what to do with it.

  118. pacer521 Says:

    LiberalSpirit,

    I agree that no one is immune to political attacks, but although I am an Obama supporter I will say that without doubt John McCain’s past is pretty clear.

    I totally agree with your last paragraph, and thanks for taking the time to comment!

  119. Kevin Robles Says:

    Pacer, I would disagree with that. When I think about McCain, this is what comes to mind:
    Vietnam
    Ronald Reagan
    Pork Barrell
    2000 Primaries
    72
    13

    Did you know he ranked almost dead last in Naval School?

  120. pacer521 Says:

    Kevin,

    I’m sorry, but just because he was dead last in Naval School doesn’t mean we don’t know enough about his past. Funny: “Pork Barrel”

  121. Kevin Robles Says:

    No, that wasn’t the point I was trying to make, What I was trying to make was that those were the only things I could now off the top of my head about McCain, while I know a lot more about Obama.

    While it doesnt mean we don’t know enough, it sure doesn’t help my view of his intelligence

  122. pacer521 Says:

    Kevin,

    I think in all fairness, if we supported McCain, we would know more about him. However, I do I agree that he has promoted his policies way less than he has attacked Obama, so this would be why.

  123. Kevin Robles Says:

    Yeah, I would agree. How do I reply so fast?

  124. pacer521 Says:

    I don’t know, it seems like your always on this page…

  125. preplan Says:

    Negative campaigns work, they always have. The idea is to sew the seeds of doubt. In many cases such attacks hope to keep people from voting at all, since most of those voters usually were leaning toward the attacked. Sadly it works more often than not. Fortunately, McCain’s own actions and Sarah Palin’s obvious lack of qualification may be so glaring that Obama will still win. Something else we tend to not want to believe, but a large segment of the electorate really are the joe sixpacks of the world so they’ll vote for McCain because Sarah Palin is hot, not because she’s or McCain are the best ones to run the country. Too many voters rely on a single issue in making their decision, be it abortion, guns, or even McCain claim to heroism.

  126. beejaygee Says:

    From a first-time reader/commenter, please correct me if I’m wrong: I interpreted your use of Obama’s “background” as a polite euphemism for “mixed-race.” Obama’s “unclear background” is an acknowledgment that if you even consider running for office, the history of every person you’ve ever even conversed with will be scrutinized in an effort to present you in the harshest manner possible.

    Would the current Presidential race be this close if a white male candidate were running against McCain? I don’t think so. Would John Edwards’ all-too-important message be heard if he hadn’t committed adultery? A resounding yes.

    As a 40+ Caucasian progressive woman I worry greatly about our collective future — and I mean “our” in the broadest sense, that as a species. Even if (my God willing) Barack is elected, we’ll have a hard road to travel. Yet just this morning, I had a glimmer of hope when discussing these issues with my 14-year-old stepson (initiated because of his reaction to a CA Prop 8 placard). Then this evening I stumble upon your well-reasoned post … only to find you’re 13?

    So there’s hope for our future yet! You’re one of the ones. Don’t stop engaging. Keep learning, stay open. And when you’re elected, don’t forget us old folks, misguided as some of us might have been.

    Please.


  127. Hey pacer521, I’ve been enjoying your blog and just wanted to toss you a comment! Hope all is well and keep up the great work!

  128. binarychoice Says:

    I can wholeheartedly relate to your last statement. I am an Obama supporter, and I can frankly answer that I do not know really a lot about Obama’s past. But the same is true about McCain too. They both might have a few demons hidden somewhere, but I don’t think any of them would be as serious as to complicate either candidate resulting in the opponent’s landslide victory. If a landslide victory is in fact possible for either candidate, it will come from issues, common perceptions, and the “gut feeling” of a voter on November 4th.

  129. Larry Says:

    Kevin,
    What I have posted is not a lie. Barack Obama tried to get the Iraqi government to hold off on any agreement to withdraw US Troops. See this article for more information.

    You can also read my own article about it.

    Also, you keep suggesting that John McCain going to Iraq is the same thing as Barack Obama and I disagree. There isn’t a thing wrong with either of them going to Iraq, as long as they don’t pull stunts such as the one Obama did on his trip. That is just plain wrong to undermine a sitting President. It shows no respect at all for Bush or our troops and the country they are fighting for.

  130. Larry Says:

    After reading some of the comments on this post, I want to go on the record about my lack of support for Barack Obama. It has nothing to do with the color of his skin and everything to do with the policies he will enact and his past record.

    @ Kevin–I am not spreading lies about Obama’s trip to Iraq and what he tried to do when he was there. I have a comment posted that addresses that, but it is being held in moderation, probably because I inserted a couple of links. When Pacer gets around to approving it, you can see what I am talking about.

  131. pacer521 Says:

    Hello everyone!

    Back from a night’s rest and I’ll get back to answering questions. Larry — sorry about not approving it, I was sleeping. I am further thinking about just automatically approving a comment.

  132. pacer521 Says:

    preplan,

    I agree, and thanks for the comment. One thing I like to point out is that it is very easy to tell someone (ahem… a pollster) that you are voting for a candidate, but the after long drive to the polls and you are standing in front of the paper, then your instinct (to be blunt), whether it be racism or fear of experience or whatever may very well take over.

  133. pacer521 Says:

    beejaygee,

    Thanks a bunch for your comments and compliments! I think being elected for anything is a bit far fetched for me now, but nevertheless….

    As far as your comment, no problem about the background misunderstanding, usually people new to the blog misunderstand a phrase or something,

    I meant to mean his past, I.E. what he was doing at age 4 and 5, not his mixed race.

    Thanks for answering the post’s question and sharing a bit — seems like we both live in California.

  134. pacer521 Says:

    David Wornica,

    Yeah, everything is going well — school is underway now and blogging may be a bit less frequent, but I’ll really keep up with the comments.

    Also, just a thanks for being part of my blog for quite awhile now, you’ve really helped out in a big way and I thank you.

  135. pacer521 Says:

    binarychoice,

    great comment! I knew someone would comment on my last sentence, I really wanted to put it in. I agree, but you never really can tell what the non-intellectuals will have effect the black mark on their ballot. Thanks for the read.

  136. yasmin Says:

    mostly because I support Obama because of his policies rather than his past involvements. —

    Hear, Here!

  137. Alfie Says:

    Congrats on a successful post as judged by the thread length. I am neither a BO nor JM supporter as evidenced from any number of my posts. I don’t know if we’ll ever see an election like this one again,part of me hopes not.

  138. pacer521 Says:

    Alfie,

    Thanks, but you must admit this was a pretty exciting election, although there is a ridiculous amount of stake at hand here. Thanks for the comment and read!

  139. sfcmac Says:

    ….”mostly because I support Obama because of his policies rather than his past involvements. —”

    They are not mutually exclusive. His past involvements have a direct bearing on his policies.

    He’s a socialist economically and on foreign policy. He honed his political skills in a leftwing/anarchist Chicago environment from the home of a like-minded comrade.

    He wants to raise taxes into the stratosphere and plans on adding anothe TRILLION dollars of spending. He wants unconditional ass-kissing for Iran and thinks Islamofascist terrorists are just ‘misunderstood’.

    If you support his policies, you’d better understand his past.

  140. pacer521 Says:

    Sfcmac,

    Oh please… So your telling me that his economic and foreign policy standpoint is because at one time went over to the house of a former Weather Underground member.

    I really don’t want to get into defending who I support for president as far as policies, so I advise you to go to his website.

  141. Kevin Robles Says:

    Larry, these are the moments when I hate forgeting to bookmark and article. What you are saying has been totally debunked! Pls, the New York Post? The New York Times ran an article about how that was a lie. So gt you facts staright, I just wish I could get mine!!

  142. 1superdave Says:

    Pacer unlike you kevin is on his way to being a koolaid drinking liberal idealoge. He fires back rapid fire and does not have a good command of the facts. I think you are fair even though I think your support of obama is misguided. It’s a free country , at least up to now, so knock yourself out. I just think that we should be able to debate without falling into the same old retorik. That being said my personal belief is that Obama’s past associations are very relavant to his political phylosophy. Birds of a feather do tend to flock together.

  143. Kevin Robles Says:

    So what if I am partisan, I didn’t say I wasn’t. You said you try to be objective, but you were the one picturing dead babies piled up. Who was it that was drinking the kool-aid?

  144. Kevin Robles Says:

    I don’t get it, Repblicans get scared when someone disagrees with them, so they are quick to call people anti-american, unpatriotic, etc. I don’t hear liberals saying that this won’t be a free country after McCain. I say there won’t be a country if McCain gets elected.

  145. pacer521 Says:

    Both of You,

    I agree with superdave in the point that we should be arguing about what the candidates plan to do in the white house, but pointing fingers and dumping the cool-aid is just going to turn this into a brawl.

    I love the conversation here, but how about we argue in the topic of politics, rather than take jabs at each other’s credentials.

  146. Kevin Robles Says:

    Ok, Pacer, but I’m just responding, I won’t let anything unresponded, and please moderate another post I sent discrediting Larry’s point about Obama and Iraq.

  147. pacer521 Says:

    Kevin’s second to last comment,

    Dude, you can’t say that there won’t be a country if McCain is elected. That’s out there a bit. I am not registered because of my age, but I am an independent with more liberal than conservative views.

    I choose to support Obama because I think he can bring out change. I also have some pretty harsh things to say about John McCain, but I wouldn’t move to canada if he is elected. Our country would get worse in my opinion, but as long as he stays in office alive, I’m going to complain like %%%% but I know that we’re still going to be free and he’s not set to turn us into commies.

  148. pacer521 Says:

    Kevin’s last comment,

    No problem, I love it that your responding quick, just had some views on that comment :-)

    I agree, larry’s comment was pretty false, and I encourage people to take a look at Kevin’s link.

  149. Kevin Robles Says:

    Thanks pacer for last comment. On no country,

    What I meant was that he is going to get us into more wars, wars, wars, thats in his blood. Who knows what could happen with one more war.

  150. Kevin Robles Says:

    Pacer, do you live near Beverly Hills? My Google Analytics show someone from Beverly Hills all the time. Also in Huntington Park and Montclair, CA.

  151. pacer521 Says:

    Kevin,

    Not really, but near there. My map doesn’t actually show exactly where I live, but I can get to Beverly Hills in a few minutes.

    With your first comment,

    I agree that McCain will continue and start new wars, he has said this in public, and that is one of the reasons I don’t support him.

  152. Kevin Robles Says:

    Oh, I see. Samething with with, my visits show up as a city nearby.

    I totally agree with you about McCain. See if you can chip in n the discussion David and I have about abortion in my blog @ http://pagezy.com/?p=72

  153. Larry Says:

    Kevin,
    The link you have provided deals with a telephone conversation between Obama and the Iraqi leaders that took place on June 16. What I am referring to is what happened on his trip to Iraq in July. See here and here for more information.

  154. Larry Says:

    I would encourage all of you to take another look at Barack Obama and his past. You may think his past is not relevant to the conversation and to his possible election as our next President, but I contend the man is a danger to our country. It can be seen in his record and the way he has voted.

    He says he isn’t for gun control, but his record shows him fighting against 2nd Amendment rights at every turn.

    He has shown that he will fight any effort to place any kind of restrictions on abortion and even voted against a parental notification bill in the Illinois State Senate.

    He will raise taxes on small business owners, who are the backbone of our country.

    He wants to nationalize healthcare and while my own wife could very well use something like that, it is not the country’s or the man I work for to provide healthcare for my family.

    Those are just a few of the reasons I do not support Barack Obama and believe his ideas are dangerous to our country.

  155. 1superdave Says:

    Pacer I left a comment on kevin’s blog. He should respond there where it has context. Why single me out kevin is obviously not objective. You have had comments here that have called people that are conservatives names. To mantain the title of objective you must be fair about it. Tell him to keep his comments to your blog about things said hear.

  156. pacer521 Says:

    1superdave,

    I can’t control what Kevin does or where he comment, but he’ll most likely see your comment.

  157. 1superdave Says:

    Larry makes a lot of sence. I would like to ask; Do you really want the same people that are running, FEMA, FANNIE MAY, FREDIE MAC, SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDI-CADE, MEDI-CARE, SEC, TSA,and what ever else they already have run into the ground running our health care system?

  158. Kevin Robles Says:

    Larry, Obama will not raise taxes on most small businesses. That is inaccurate. If forget the exact percentage, but a large pecrcent of small businesses do not make over 250K a year, so their taxes would not be raised. It is likely that you will receive a bigger tax cut under Obama’s proposal than under McCain’s plan.

    He does not want to nationalize health care; another inaccuracy. If you have health care, and you are happy with it, then you have nothing to worry about. Now, if you are uninsured, you will get the same health care as federal employees. It is thanks to a federal program that I was able to go to a physician, x-rays, and a dermatologist, because my family income is not enough. I believe health care is a right, not a corporate commodities.

  159. 1superdave Says:

    Pacer that’s a cop-out. You tell me about taking jabs at each other. Just type the words “kevin keep your comments here about whats said here”

  160. Kevin Robles Says:

    I’m sorry, I believe its Bush that has been in the White House for the past 8 years. Sorry, that was just a tinzy winzy detail I forgot. You talk as if your leaders haven’t been in power these past 8 years.

  161. Kevin Robles Says:

    Wow wow, what have I said here that pertains to my blog? All I said was if he would like to “chip in” on our discussion in our blog.

  162. 1superdave Says:

    Kevin you can’t have it both ways in the same comment. If heath care is a right then Obama isn’t going to deny you a right, so he will nationalize it.

  163. Kevin Robles Says:

    Again, it is not nationalizing it. Please tell me how it is nationalizing it.

  164. 1superdave Says:

    So what if I am partisan, I didn’t say I wasn’t. You said you try to be objective, but you were the one picturing dead babies piled up. Who was it that was drinking the kool-aid?

    Kevin Robles

    12 Oct 08 at 9:23 am
    Try that one

  165. Kevin Robles Says:

    David, I’m drawing a blank here. What are you trying come a cross with?

  166. 1superdave Says:

    isn’t it anti-growth to tax above $250,000.

  167. pacer521 Says:

    1superdave,

    That was not a cop out, come on! I just walked over to my phone to make a call and in that time all this happened.

    Great conversation going on!

  168. Larry Says:

    Kevin,

    I was talking to the man who owns and runs the business I work for and according to the figures he has seen from his accountant, his taxes would go up at least 50% under the tax plan of Barack Obama.

    Please tell me how it is the responsibility of the government or my employer to provide healthcare for my family. I just don’t believe it is.

    I am not interested in how big of a tax cut I will receive. I am interested in what will grow our economy and make our country prosperous once again. Raising taxes on the companies that provide a lot of jobs is not going to do that. Who do you think really pays those taxes that are applied to the wealthy companies? In all fairness, it isn’t them, it is people like you and I who have to pay higher prices for the goods and services we use as consumers. The reason is because those taxes are passed to us through those higher prices.

  169. Kevin Robles Says:

    Well, think of it this way. 110 million people are considered “middle class” which means no where near 250,000. If you give tax credits to them instead of the wealthy, by the way they don’t need it, the overall population will be better off and a better economy will be the end result:

    110million + tax breaks + (tax more on wealthy) = economic prosperity and more government revenues.

  170. 1superdave Says:

    Address the point. He said something that in out of place here. Grow up.

  171. 1superdave Says:

    Kevin thats your comment. that’s what you said here that is about what i said on your blog. You do read english don’t you?

  172. Kevin Robles Says:

    David, again I don’t see what you mean by “out of place” You did say what I wrote. Correct?

  173. 1superdave Says:

    Taxes to high = wealthy don’t invest= job lay offs= less productivity= the little guy gets hurt

  174. Kevin Robles Says:

    David,

    I apologize, I did not read it 100% carefully. But nonetheless, it is true.

  175. Larry Says:

    Kevin,

    I had published my earlier comment about the same time as you did yours. Let me address it.

    I made between 35 and 40k last year and I already pay very little actual federal income tax. I am not sure what the actual percentages are, but I ask you again, how is taxing the wealthy more than they already are going to help our economy? I say again, those companies are just going to pass those taxes on to consumers like you and I, in the form of higher prices. That’s really going to help, now isn’t it.

    What our country really needs is something like the Fair Tax, which would spread the tax base out more evenly and fairly. What Obama is proposing simply will not do the job.

  176. Kevin Robles Says:

    If recall correcly, the taxe brackets proposed under Obama will be the same as the time when Ronald Reagan was president. Again, you want to follow the same policies that Pres. Bush has comitted to. Hello!!! Are we in prosperity, and when I say we I mean the nation as a whole.

  177. 1superdave Says:

    David,

    I apologize, I did not read it 100% carefully. But nonetheless, it is true.

    Kevin Robles

    12 Oct 08 at 10:37 am

    Kevin it’s true it doesn’t belong here. aswer your own blogs comment there. period.

  178. Kevin Robles Says:

    I have hard time beliveing your point about higher prices. Taxes are for net gains. Just because a company gets more taxes, it doesn’t mean that the competition will raise prices, because they may earn less. So, the company would not benefit from raising prices because their competition will not. Those are factors that change, but that is just an example.

  179. pacer521 Says:

    Yeah, lets not clutter the old comment section. Great discussion, I trust you guys to hold down the fort while I go eat lunch for an hour.

    See you then,
    pacer521

  180. Kevin Robles Says:

    David, your acting a bit unstable. You are acting as if I broke some wonderful law or rule in the bloggin world. I did respond to you, but you didn’t respond, so I wanted to get your attention, since you where hear, I posted it here. Since your making such a deal about it, I regret doign so. PERIOD.

  181. Larry Says:

    Kevin,

    While I agree that President Bush has certainly made mistakes, to try to lay the blame for our economic crisis at his feet is simply wrong. This entire crisis started while Clinton was in the White House and changed the rules regarding the way the Community Reinvestment Act was enforced. This paved the way for ACORN to start intimidating banks into making loans they knew would not be paid back. That led to the subprime mortgage crisis and then to the current economic crisis we see today. If we are going to start casting stones, then let’s make sure the blame goes to the right parties.

  182. 1superdave Says:

    1superdave,

    I can’t control what Kevin does or where he comment, but he’ll most likely see your comment.

    The that’s acop-out was about this answer. If you are going to moderate your blog, then don’t just pick on those that post opinion different than your own. Kevin is obviously a friend, but friends don’t let friends post incorrect comments. Just tell him to keep his comment relavant to your blog.

  183. Kevin Robles Says:

    Larry,
    While I do not know much about what you stated, I do remember that the econmic state of the country was in good shape. TO attribute all the fault to Bill Clinton is preposterous.

    Also, what to get to health care again. John McCain will tax your health insurance benefits, for the first time in history. All he is doing with the problem with health care is throwing money to the fire. $5,000, but you still can’t be insured if you have preconditions. Come on.

  184. Larry Says:

    Kevin,

    You may not believe it, but it is the truth. The place where I work, for example, has had to raise it’s prices on towing services and our hourly labor rate, simply because of higher taxes and stricter government regulation on the industry. I have been at this job for 5.5 years and our normal automobile tows have went from $45 to $60 and our labor rate has went from $55 to $70. It’s a shame that it has to be that way, but we had two choices; either raise our prices or start losing money. We chose the first option, in order to stay in business and provide jobs for the employees.

  185. Kevin Robles Says:

    David, why haven’t you responded back? I apologized for what I did and but I gave my reasons for why I did it. What else do you want? If nothing, then lets end that particular discussion.

  186. 1superdave Says:

    Kevin Taxes are an expense. All expense is part of what is used to calculate the cost and therefore the price of a product. Acompany that sells a product for less than it cost to produce it will go broke. Companies don’t pay taxes ,consumers do. If the comsumer happens to be poor the tax is a tax on the poor. It’s called unintended consequences. Nonetheless it is the fact.

  187. Larry Says:

    Kevin,

    I am not blaming Bill Clinton for our current economic crisis. I am saying he paved the way for ACORN to start the snowball rolling down the hill and it has gotten bigger and bigger.

    As for John McCain taxing health benefits, read the rest of the story and learn the truth about that little misnomer.

  188. Kevin Robles Says:

    That is one case, but that scenario can not be attributed to every small business. Again, who has ruled most of the time our country? Republicans? Apart from the 8 years from Bill, and that 4year term from Carter, Republicans have been in power, promoting the ideas that you promote. I mean, have we ever taxed people the way Obama has, yes. Did the world come to an end!!? No!

  189. Kevin Robles Says:

    That tax break would go directly to insurance companies.

  190. Kevin Robles Says:

    If you believe in that David, describe to me what the Republicans are doing to help the poor or the middle class?

  191. Kevin Robles Says:

    That was in the 90s and the beginning of this century. The current financial crisis is due to loans made in the last 3 years, when now is when they are readjusting. The reason is because the economic prosperity went down. Tell me, who’s fault is it?

  192. Larry Says:

    I obviously can not prove what I am going to say, but I believe the economic boom we saw during the eight years Bill Clinton was in office was due to the economic policies of Ronald Reagan. It takes a while for things to start working, but work they did.

  193. 1superdave Says:

    My request to pacer is to manup and not take sides. I accept your apology but I think pacer’s responce was a copout. I post in english. read what I said. I am not the fastest typer in the world and it does take time to make thoughtfull comments. My admonition to you is slow down and take the time to realy read the comment of anyone and then when you respond, ask yourself is this really what I believe or am I merely repeating what I have heard. You sound like a leftwing nut when you shoot back rapid fire.

  194. Kevin Robles Says:

    In part, you are correct. But Clinton went in with a deficit, and he left with a surplus.

    Surplus + Money to spend on Infrastrucutre etc. = more jobs, and you know what that equals.

  195. Larry Says:

    The subprime mortgage crisis is due to ACORN’s involvement in forcing banks to make such bad loans in the first place. As I said, that started the snowball running downhill.

    While we are at it, President Bush and John McCain both called for greater oversight on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, seeing the problems they were getting into and it was the Democrats who were in control of Congress that shot that idea down. You may wonder why they did that, but start checking out who received the most money from Fannie and Freddie and you will find one Senator from Illinois who is at the top of the list. No wonder they didn’t want greater regulation and oversight on the companies who were supplying their campaign coffers with large amounts of money.

  196. Larry Says:

    Kevin,

    The deficit turned surplus was more of a result of Reagan’s policies than it was of Clinton’s.

  197. Kevin Robles Says:

    Well, yes I do read fast which in turn makes me not realize somethings. But nonetheless, everything I say is an analysis which I make based on facts and onpinions.

  198. Sam Hayden Jr Says:

    Hi Pacer,

    Thanks for dropping by my site – I couldn’t find anything on YouTube about Sarah Palin at a Red Wings game, just the Flyers incident.

    As regards your views on Obama’s past, you make a fair point but I think overemphasise it a little. Firstly I think the blogosphere has picked up really quickly on Palin’s hypocrisy in the guilt by association issue as she has “palled around” to a far greater extent with the secessionists of the Alaska Independence Party (her husband even being a member for seven years). Everyone from yours truly to Bobby Kennedy Jr has pointed that out.

    Secondly, in the Fox News poll you quote (dubious right there) the bulk of those who claim to be less likely to vote for Obama as a result of the Ayers issue are Republican anyway and almost certainly not going to vote for him. Amongst independents only 29% said it will make them less likely to vote for him, compared to the 40% of independents who say they are less likely to vote McCain because Palin is on the ticket. Also check out the actual question – it’s a completely emotionally-charged, leading push-poll question.

    Finally, Obama is not going to win this election by a huge amount and it’s not down to him. I believe that about 40% of American voters are staunch Republicans who wouldn’t vote Democrat under any circumstance. So a ten-point victory with 350 Electoral College votes would be a remarkable achievement for him.

    So don’t panic just yet although I do acknowledge that there’s a long way to go yet.

    Sam Hayden Jr

  199. Kevin Robles Says:

    NONE-EXCESSIVE SPENDING is what led to a surplus, unlike your president with his god-driven and oil-driven ideas. Example: Invasion of Iraq, No-bid contracts, etc.

    To previous comment,

    Donations have a much less impact than actually guiding a person’s stance on issues, a la McCain and his advisors.

  200. Kevin Robles Says:

    Am I not correct when I say “That was in the 90s and the beginning of this century. The current financial crisis is due to loans made in the last 3 years, when now is when they are readjusting. The reason is because the economic prosperity went down. Tell me, who’s fault is it?”

    Don’t hold on to hot nails.

  201. 1superdave Says:

    If you believe in that David, describe to me what the Republicans are doing to help the poor or the middle class?

    Kevin Robles

    12 Oct 08 at 10:59 am
    Kevin a rising tide raises all ships. The credit mess is not just three year loans. The combination of those five to seven year arm loans, smalltime speculators that were able to take out loans with out being able to pay them back, the unpressidented rise in oil prices(that caught us in a bind because your buddies have brought all types of domestic energy production to a hault), and the steady drumbeat of the liberal media saying how terible things were(for the sole porpose of electing more liberals)all came together into a perfect storm. The high oil prices drove some away from the housing market. As home prices declined although moderately te media relintlessly talked the economy down. This paniced the smalltime speculators who tried to dump their spec homes. This caused further deflation in the home market. Since the loans that had been made at the direction of the dems and fannie may and fredie mac were worthless the capital banks were caught with the worthless paper.

  202. Kevin Robles Says:

    You can’t convince me with rhetoric. Plus, you didn’t answer the question. You sound like Gov. Palin, answer the question and don’t spin things. So I guess you are for “Drill here, Drill Now!” Ok, doing that will have no effect on gas prices in 10 years. (According to your govrnment) The effect would be meaningless, except of course enriching even more the big oil companies with no net gain for the American People. Rich people don’t come first.

    I believe it was our invasion in Iraq is a primary factor of high gas prices. Our being there leads to more violence elsehwere, elsewhere being pipelines.

  203. Kevin Robles Says:

    I’m finished for now, since there hasnt been a post in the last 5 mins. I have guests coming home soon. Thank you for the discussion, but if anything you made me more aware of thewrong path the right wing ideas have taken us and will take us.

    Good Day

  204. Dominique Says:

    If I may humbly interject here on this interesting conversation about taxes. I think everyone some missing a vital points. What did our forefathers and the Constitution say about taxes and the spending of the “people’s” money?

    According to Horatio Bunce (he lived and served as an elected official during Representative Davy Crockett’s time) “The power of collecting and disbursing money at pleasure is the most dangerous power that can be entrusted to man. Once Congress begins to stretch its power beyond the limits of the Constitution, there is no limit to it, AND, there is no security for the people”

    Our government (whether republican, democratic, or independent) have a specific job according to the Federalist Papers and that is “to ensure that the US is strong enough to guard against potential foreign enemies (war or threats from outside) and to protect itself from internal dissension.” (the grab of power from within through money and the expansion of government – war from inside)

    In other words, it is not our elected officials job to do what should be done at the state level; it is not their job to spend our money, and it is not their job to expand the power of the Federal government. There job is to protect us from outside forces that would look to destroy us or attack us as well as ensuring that America is not destroyed from within by power and greed of those we send to serve us.

    I think you would agree, on both sides of the aisle, that our elected officials are no longer serving the “we the people” but instead are serving themselves and working diligently to protect their careers.

    While McCain may not be the “best” choice our nation has, to automatically link him to Bush is a stretch because he has broken with party lines many times such as on immigration, campaign finance, etc. McCain would actually be better off running as an independent because in essence that is what he really is.

    Also, one of the most affective ways to fix the problems of the middle class and taxes is to implement the Fair Tax for several reasons (which by the way, McCain supports and Obama does not)

    1. It takes away the power to spend from our elected officials thus making them impotent.

    2. It increases the recovered “tax revenue” by taxing EVERY single American. Right now 30 percent of the American population do NOT pay taxes – the bottom half and a segment of the upper half. (thus Obama’s comment that he will NOT tax 95% of Americans is false because 30 percent already do not pay tax leaving only 70 percent left to tax). Also, those involved in illegal activities would be unable to continue to avoid paying taxes.

    3. It will put America in a positive position of being the best place in the world to do business. In affect, it would open the doors in a major way of bringing back American business as well as foreign business here to do their business because it would prove more cost affective for them than any other place in the entire world – hands down.

    One of my favorite quotes by Jefferson is that “democracy is only as strong as the middle class.” Taxes do not strength, they destroy. That is the reason Obama wants to increase taxes despite what he claims.

    Also, he declares that his taxes are on the rich. Do you realize that the tax plan we are currently straining under was sold to the American people as a flat tax on the Rich? Who is paying these taxes? It isn’t the rich and it isn’t the poor. It is the middle class. Try thinking of it this way. Every time you change your underwear, (everyday) Congress changes the tax code at least 3 times, thus adding to the middle class already burgeoning tax burden.

    The best way to solve our money problems and program problems is to remove the temptation of money and spending from our elected officials and put in place a tax system that is (as Obama is famous for saying) Fair – truly so – and that is by implementing the Fair Tax.

  205. Very Scared Says:

    I work in a government capacity and I see all of the fraud that goes on with government. I don’t see how bigger government will help this country. I also do not like the idea of social engineering which is what brought this country to her knees right now. Barney Frank and the rest presssured banks to lend to people who had no allegience to this country other than to get more affirmative action. So the banks sold those bad loans that they were pressured to offer (no money down, bad credit history ok, lower interest rates). Now it seems that it is the republicans fault? Get real. Now Obama will offer more of the same just on a larger scale, and with authority as the president. Just look at the group linked to Obama Acorn, how they behave with voter fraud is the exact way any other agency that Obama will set up in the future in regard to Community Action groups. Say good-bye to America now. :( so sad really that no one seems to see this and the immenent demise of our sweet sweet country.

  206. Sam Hayden Jr Says:

    Hi Pacer,

    Just realised you’re only thirteen. Thirteen?? Seriously?? If so, fair play and keep it up

    Sam Hayden Jr

  207. Patrick Shea Says:

    I think if John Edwards was our candidate, McCain would be winning by a landslide. I like John Edwards, and I appreciated his willingness to talk about class in America in a way no other candidate would touch with a very long stick. However, like John Kerry, Edwards could never inspire the sort of support Barack Obama has pulled from all stratas of the American populace.

    I think part of the key to the trust Obama has inspired is his willingness to talk about politics (and earlier in the campaign, race) so frankly and transparently. He laughs off Bill O’Reilly’s face to face charges of Socialism, he brushes aside nonsensical claims about ties to Bill Ayers and domestic terrorism, and so the charges seem to be what they are: flimsy acts of desperation.

    As for McCain rallies — McCain and Palin are really speaking to and augmenting America’s deepest racial fears, plain and simple. People aren’t scared of Bill Ayers, they’re scared of having a black president, and so these comments — “He’s not like you and me…” — manipulate the fears of race under the cover of something far more benign.

  208. pacer521 Says:

    I’m back and back to answering comments. Sorry, 1superdave, Kevin and Larry, but I’ll let you guys duke this out yourself.

  209. pacer521 Says:

    Sam Hayden Jr comment #1,

    No problem, great blog you’ve got going there.

    I agree to an extent with your second paragraph and third, but I think you should know that I used Fox News for one of the first times, I don’t trust it much.

    You are totally right about the fact that polls are very hard to depend on, mostly because the people polled aren’t exactly going to vote that way in the end.

    Thanks for the comment and stop on my blog.

  210. pacer521 Says:

    Dominique,

    Although this isn’t directed towards me, I am just coming in to say that you make a great point.

  211. pacer521 Says:

    Very Scared,

    Nice job you’ve got there, and I think that you raise a good point based on you’re experience.

    Look, I am an Obama supporter and I’ll seem like everyone else, but you are underestimating Obama’s economy plan. If you read through his full policy, you’ll see that all your points will be answered.

    Thanks for commenting.

  212. pacer521 Says:

    Sam Hayden Jr. #2,

    yeah, it takes people a while to figure that out.

  213. pacer521 Says:

    Patrick Shea,

    Thanks for the alternate argument, why do you think Edwards would lose in a landslide?

    I agree about Obama and why he has this much supporter base, and also in part to what you said about McCain. Its sad about this racism, but its out there.

    Thanks for the comment.

  214. sauer kraut Says:

    The people who claim there are unknowns in Obama’s background are people who’ve never really taken the time to vet his background.

    I first met Obama about 20 years ago when started at HLS. I saw nothing phoney about him then and I see nothing phoney about him now.

    When Obama ran for the position of Editor of the HLR, it came down to him and 2 conservatives. He out-voted them both to become the first black law review editor in the history of HLS. I strongly suspect that at least one of those two, and possibly both, will be voting for him Nov. 4.

    And they’ll be voting for him because they know the smears the McCain campaign is running behind are false.

  215. pacer521 Says:

    Ok — I am leaving on my school’s retreat for today, tonight, and tomorrow into the day. Sorry if I haven’t answered anyone, and I am not going to post for two days — tuesday night.

  216. Kevin Robles Says:

    Read about Obama’s Economic Rescue Plan for the Middle Class in my blog.

    Thanks,
    Kevin

  217. ribbie Says:

    Some will disagree with me, but I think race is a big factor in why Obama isn’t leading by more. There is a lot of racism in this country, but people will say they won’t vote for Obama because he is inexperienced, or that he “associated” with a shady character in the past, or that he is too inexperienced or whatever.

    Let’s face it, McCain is not the most appealing candidate to the Republican base, nor is Sarah Palin for that matter. Yes, there are some who love her folksy quips, and treat her like a Country Western star, but no one could possibly feel confident in her ability to lead the country. Or could they? And McCain is simply uninspiring on the campaign trail, and as a leader. His voting record is unimpressive. His maverick status is a myth. Yes he has hero status, but people want new leadership, not more of the same.

    There is a huge culture divide in this country. Sometimes I feel like we live in two Americas. I don’t think Edwards, frankly, would have had a more commanding lead than Obama, but for different reasons. He has a limited, sort of populist appeal – he doesn’t have that larger than life image and does not inspire hope like Obama. He did nothing for John Kerry and his own candidacy never took root and this was before the scandal broke out.

    Though the contest has been close, it may be breaking for Obama and he could win in a landslide. And then the politics of hope will have transcended the politics of race.

  218. legalboxerbriefs Says:

    Um, so, my mind is blown. This is really impressive, and, honestly, better than my writing. I can’t believe you’re only thirteen!


  219. [...] election, Election 2008, john mccain, polling, race So I was reading another blog and came across this comment (by the way, the guy who writes it is pretty incredible. I know I have like negative readers, but [...]

  220. DEE Says:

    We are too intelligent to fall for McCain and Palin’s tactics! There is too much at stake for us to let the Hate mongers in this country win, not this time! Do not become complacent or overconfident! Barack Obama CAN lose this election! Don’t worry about what anyone says! Don’t pay attention to the polls! People have had big leads in the polls and lost on Election Day! Just get out and VOTE! Vote early! Don’t wait until the last minute! Don’t become overconfident! Obama must win this election! Vote! VOTE! VOTE! The world is watching!

    OBAMA/BIDEN 08-12!


  221. [...] I detailed in another post, I used a quote stating a common fact: the Republican party is not currently popular. This can be [...]

  222. saint statue Says:

    saint statue…

    WOW keep up your work…


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